Friday, October 11, 2013

Church and State and the space in between

This nation was founded with the idea that all men and women could practice whatever religion (or lack thereof) that they wished with little to no interference from the government. Because of the government being set up as a contractual government (i.e. the people give the leaders the right to rule and expect fair and just treatment in return) it also expected little to no interference from religion. This is only a right way of thinking if one stops to consider it. In order to allow the practice of any religion or lack thereof, the government itself must be free from the moral and ethical confines of any one religion. It must relegate itself to reason and scientific inquiry in order to achieve the freedom we claim to hold so dear. Yet one religion in particular wants to assert dominance (albeit in a covert manner) over all the others and dominance over the laws of the land. This religion is Christianity. To say this, one must first understand that no claim is made as to the right or wrong character of Christianity or any claim to wish its existence gone. Neither of these is argued or will be argued. It is simply argued that a number of misguided individuals believe the nation should base its laws on Christian ethics and morality and not on what the facts actually say. In addition, these same people desire to have no aid in creating such a nation as they wish to remain tax free. As the saying goes, they wish to have their cake and eat it too. What these individuals refuse to confront is that to base laws not on rational and scientific means, but to base them on one very small subset of the population, denies the ethical considerations of the Jew, the Muslim, the Hindu, and the many other religions prevalent in our society. Thus far, the government has done little to interfere with the practice of any religion, but should organizations such as the Westboro Baptist "Church" (Their prevalence of social activities and large expenditure on them, their constant self instigated legal battles, and their lack of any coherent dogma or actual church membership-the "church" is almost exclusively the extended family of "rev." Phelps- makes it hard to take them seriously when they call themselves a church. e.g. by their definition my blog and our family meals are a church), and the numerous Senators and Representatives who pander to their constituents' emotional love of religion, continue then the government should step in. They enjoy a tax free and quiet existence, to ask for laws without even considering that those laws only benefit them and serve no purpose in a rational society, borders on political and not religious organization. In short, the ethical and moral guidelines of Christianity or any other religion have no place in politics. If our laws are based on one particular subset, it is always to the detriment of others. The law must be rational, not religious. Only when the law infringes on the practice of a religion (NOT simply offending them but actually prohibits them from worship in some tangible way) is that religion allowed to petition the government for its change. Any other political speech should , rationally and logically, be avoided by religion OR the religion should be taxed as any other corporation. The space between is the freedom afforded to religion to practice off of public roads and to use public utilities. Any further space invites the tyranny of a State Religion. What do you think? How should church and state be separated? Should they be separated? I look forward to your comments and the probably protest/lawsuit of the Westboro Baptist "Church".

3 comments:

  1. I wasn't familiar with the Westboro Baptist 'Church' so I looked it up on google images. Pictures of children holding those signs broke my heart. I have studied the Bible all my life and there is nothing of the love of Jesus in what those people do. Please do not judge us by them. I do not profess to know their hearts, but if their actions are any indication, then I do not believe those people are Christians.
    I agree with you that we should all have total freedom of religion. I've learned that I cannot change other people's minds or hearts and that by inflicting my ideals on them, I only breed bitterness and resentment.
    I would, however, like a clarification of what you mean by 'matters that do not merely offend, but prohibit us from worship.' For Christians, our worship is much more than weekly meetings in a building. It's a way of life. Even the dictionary's definition of worship is to love someone or something deeply. We show that worship/love for God in all aspects of our life. So what may seem like a mere offense to others, can in actuality be hindering our worship. For example, the store chain Hobby Lobby is locked in a severe and expensive law suit with the government over whether they should provide birth control pills that could possibly cause abortions. As a Christian organisation, they feel it is morally reprehensible to aid in ending the life of an unborn child. Their right to worship God by taking a pro-life stance is being severely hindered by the government and I believe they should have the right to refuse to provide these pills if they choose to.
    I think part of the issue is that for Christians, our morals and everyday life are inseparable, so to take away the freedom to live by our morals is to take away our freedom to live as we believe we need to live.
    I agree with your point that in order to have an unbiased government, there should be a separation of church and state. And I think that a great many of the political arguments the church is engaged in are folly. I personally try to stay out of politics mainly because that is an area Jesus never got involved in. He went straight to the people and left the corrupt Roman government alone. The Bible tells us to pray for our leaders and I think more Christians should do that, and leave their signs at home, unless we are being forced to participate in actions that go against our beliefs (as the case with Hobby Lobby).
    Thank you very much for the interesting and thought provoking article, as well as for asking for other opinions. I really appreciate that. As a completely unrelated side note, are you wearing Doctor 4's scarf in your profile picture?

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  2. "The church is there to minister to the follower and convert the unbeliever, not to be a special interest group." I wholeheartedly agree. Especially as regards gay marriage. I won't get into what I personally believe about homosexuality right now, but it is a pet peeve of mine that the church is out to 'save the sanctity of marriage' by attacking homosexuals and yet they seem perfectly content with the extremely high divorce rate among Christians.
    The problem is, people are always going to disagree on 'right' and 'wrong.' I'm going to say that abortion is wrong while someone else will say that it's wrong of me to say that. There will never be peace this side of heaven and people are going to disagree no matter what.
    Free will is one of the greatest gifts God gave to mankind, thus we each have the God-given right to exercise it. Your sentence "As to the freedom to live by the morals of Christianity, one must understand that I can exercise my rights ONLY TO THE EXTENT that they do not interfere with others," I think nutshells it very nicely. But it has to work on the flip side as well. Non-Christians should be able to exercise their rights only to the extent that they don't interfere with Christians. And there's the rub: there is simply no way to please everyone. I'm going to say that abortion falls under the category of 'interfering with others' and someone else is going to say that my saying that falls under the same category. It's a catch 22. All I can see to do is what the Bible tells me to do: pray for those in power (1Tim.2:1-2), render unto Caesar what is Caesar's (Matt.22:21), and just love people (Matt.22:39).
    I've enjoyed this conversation and I am very grateful for your open and respectful stance. I know that several of these topics are sore spots for many people and I admire and respect anyone who can discuss issues calmly and logically. Thank you very much!

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  3. I agree, often times people can't just sit down and have a conversation on topics that are hot button issues without acting like brutes. That, however, is the cornerstone of my blog, no matter how much I or anyone else agrees or disagrees, I want it to be a place where discussion is unfettered, but also polite and civil. I believe that everyone can discuss issues and even if no agreement is reached, people can agree to disagree in a civil manner if necessary. I have enjoyed our conversation as well and I hope you will recommend my blog to others as a safe place to exchange ideas. I moderate every comment, so I can assure you that anyone who wants to come on here and just make bigoted, hateful, or spiteful remarks will not be allowed. And last, but not least, I agree with you, often times it is a catch 22 in the exercise of rights. When that happens, the only suggestion I have is to evaluate the rights exercised involved and act on what would produce the greatest freedom for the most people without offending popular ethics (what the majority wants, so long as it doesn't blatantly deny the minority access to equal rights, e.g. I find it abhorrent that women only make 77% the salary of men in today's marketplace despite the popular polls showing little concern for that travesty). Of course, this utilitarian approach won't always work, but it is a framework that will at least safeguard most freedoms. That said, you are absolutely right with abortion falling under interfering with others, at least in my opinion. Modern abortion is rarely done because of rape or incest (the two instances where at least some argument could be made) and RU-486 is no exception. It is most often used as "birth control" for those who want to take no responsibility for their actions. There is no justification that can be made for that and it ultimately boils down to conveniency homicide. Thank you so much for your comments, it is always refreshing to discuss these kinds of topics with civil and thoughtful people. Please feel free to look through my other posts and if I can answer or clarify anything that seems not quite right to you, please don't hesitate to bring it up. I know I am not right 100% of the time and I will freely admit when I have made a mistake (no stranger to those!). Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you in the future!
    James

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